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ObservableCollection(of T): Only for UI-tier or for all tiers?In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in different situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and sometimes at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) for all tiers? A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural reasons for instance? Best regards, Henrik Dahl Henrik,
I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It is basically a Collection<T> instance which implements INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These interfaces, while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly for UI. You might want some code to run when certain properties are changed (in a chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example is UI changes, but not by any means the only example. Hope this helps. -- Show quoteHide quote- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Hello! > > In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in different > situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and sometimes at > other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so > MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. > > Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using > ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI tier > using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the implementation > using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) for all tiers? > > A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically only > be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural reasons for > instance? > > > Best regards, > > Henrik Dahl > > Hello Nicholas,
Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception is actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This could indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection because what you've described probably should not lead to such treading related behaviour. What do you think? Best regards, Henrik Dahl Show quoteHide quote "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Henrik, > > I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. > ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It is > basically a Collection<T> instance which implements > INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These interfaces, > while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly for UI. You > might want some code to run when certain properties are changed (in a > chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example is UI changes, > but not by any means the only example. > > Hope this helps. > > > -- > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com > > "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message > news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Hello! >> >> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in different >> situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and sometimes at >> other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. >> >> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI >> tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) for >> all tiers? >> >> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically only >> be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural reasons >> for instance? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Henrik Dahl >> >> > > Henrik,
That isn't the case. There is nothing in ObservableCollection which is tied to the UI. The error is expected, as you are trying to update the UI thread from a non UI thread (something not allowed in WPF as well as Win32). -- Show quoteHide quote- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message news:uzYP3NSeHHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > Hello Nicholas, > > Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception is > actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This could > indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection because > what you've described probably should not lead to such treading related > behaviour. What do you think? > > > Best regards, > > Henrik Dahl > > "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i > en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Henrik, >> >> I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. >> ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It is >> basically a Collection<T> instance which implements >> INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These interfaces, >> while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly for UI. You >> might want some code to run when certain properties are changed (in a >> chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example is UI changes, >> but not by any means the only example. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> >> -- >> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >> >> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >> news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Hello! >>> >>> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in different >>> situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and sometimes >>> at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >>> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. >>> >>> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >>> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI >>> tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >>> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) for >>> all tiers? >>> >>> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically >>> only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural >>> reasons for instance? >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Henrik Dahl >>> >>> >> >> > > Hello again!
OK, so your point is, that the exception is not thrown by ObservableCollection(Of T) but by some action performed by an event handler erroneously invoked by the non-UI thread in this case? Best regards, Henrik Dahl Show quoteHide quote "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:eCPhAiSeHHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Henrik, > > That isn't the case. There is nothing in ObservableCollection which is > tied to the UI. The error is expected, as you are trying to update the UI > thread from a non UI thread (something not allowed in WPF as well as > Win32). > > > -- > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com > > "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message > news:uzYP3NSeHHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >> Hello Nicholas, >> >> Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception is >> actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This could >> indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection because >> what you've described probably should not lead to such treading related >> behaviour. What do you think? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Henrik Dahl >> >> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev >> i en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Henrik, >>> >>> I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. >>> ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It is >>> basically a Collection<T> instance which implements >>> INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These interfaces, >>> while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly for UI. You >>> might want some code to run when certain properties are changed (in a >>> chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example is UI changes, >>> but not by any means the only example. >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>> >>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>> news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Hello! >>>> >>>> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in different >>>> situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and sometimes >>>> at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >>>> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. >>>> >>>> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >>>> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI >>>> tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >>>> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) for >>>> all tiers? >>>> >>>> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically >>>> only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural >>>> reasons for instance? >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Henrik Dahl >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Henrik,
Yes. -- Show quoteHide quote- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message news:eCJRafTeHHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Hello again! > > OK, so your point is, that the exception is not thrown by > ObservableCollection(Of T) but by some action performed by an event > handler erroneously invoked by the non-UI thread in this case? > > > Best regards, > > Henrik Dahl > > "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i > en meddelelse news:eCPhAiSeHHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Henrik, >> >> That isn't the case. There is nothing in ObservableCollection which >> is tied to the UI. The error is expected, as you are trying to update >> the UI thread from a non UI thread (something not allowed in WPF as well >> as Win32). >> >> >> -- >> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >> >> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >> news:uzYP3NSeHHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>> Hello Nicholas, >>> >>> Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception is >>> actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This could >>> indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection because >>> what you've described probably should not lead to such treading related >>> behaviour. What do you think? >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Henrik Dahl >>> >>> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev >>> i en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Henrik, >>>> >>>> I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. >>>> ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It is >>>> basically a Collection<T> instance which implements >>>> INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These interfaces, >>>> while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly for UI. You >>>> might want some code to run when certain properties are changed (in a >>>> chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example is UI changes, >>>> but not by any means the only example. >>>> >>>> Hope this helps. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>>> >>>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>>> news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hello! >>>>> >>>>> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in >>>>> different situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier and >>>>> sometimes at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >>>>> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of MyCollectionElementClass. >>>>> >>>>> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >>>>> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI >>>>> tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >>>>> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) >>>>> for all tiers? >>>>> >>>>> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically >>>>> only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural >>>>> reasons for instance? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Henrik Dahl >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > OK.
Do you know if instances of ObservableCollection(Of T) may also be marshalled via the serialization mechanishms of WCF or via XmlSerializer? Best regards, Henrik Dahl Show quoteHide quote "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:%23LIuXHUeHHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Henrik, > > Yes. > > > -- > - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] > - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com > > "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message > news:eCJRafTeHHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> Hello again! >> >> OK, so your point is, that the exception is not thrown by >> ObservableCollection(Of T) but by some action performed by an event >> handler erroneously invoked by the non-UI thread in this case? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Henrik Dahl >> >> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev >> i en meddelelse news:eCPhAiSeHHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Henrik, >>> >>> That isn't the case. There is nothing in ObservableCollection which >>> is tied to the UI. The error is expected, as you are trying to update >>> the UI thread from a non UI thread (something not allowed in WPF as well >>> as Win32). >>> >>> >>> -- >>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>> >>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>> news:uzYP3NSeHHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>> Hello Nicholas, >>>> >>>> Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception >>>> is actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This >>>> could indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection >>>> because what you've described probably should not lead to such treading >>>> related behaviour. What do you think? >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Henrik Dahl >>>> >>>> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> >>>> skrev i en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>> Henrik, >>>>> >>>>> I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. >>>>> ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It >>>>> is basically a Collection<T> instance which implements >>>>> INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These >>>>> interfaces, while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly >>>>> for UI. You might want some code to run when certain properties are >>>>> changed (in a chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent example >>>>> is UI changes, but not by any means the only example. >>>>> >>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>>>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>>>> >>>>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>>>> news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Hello! >>>>>> >>>>>> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in >>>>>> different situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier >>>>>> and sometimes at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >>>>>> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of >>>>>> MyCollectionElementClass. >>>>>> >>>>>> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >>>>>> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the non-UI >>>>>> tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >>>>>> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) >>>>>> for all tiers? >>>>>> >>>>>> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically >>>>>> only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural >>>>>> reasons for instance? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Henrik Dahl >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Henrik,
Well, did you check the documentation? *smiles* It says that the Serializable attribute is applied to it, which means that instances of it can be serialized, assuming that T is serializable. -- Show quoteHide quote- Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message news:OI5NGvUeHHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > OK. > > Do you know if instances of ObservableCollection(Of T) may also be > marshalled via the serialization mechanishms of WCF or via XmlSerializer? > > > Best regards, > > Henrik Dahl > > "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev i > en meddelelse news:%23LIuXHUeHHA.4308@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Henrik, >> >> Yes. >> >> >> -- >> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >> >> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >> news:eCJRafTeHHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >>> Hello again! >>> >>> OK, so your point is, that the exception is not thrown by >>> ObservableCollection(Of T) but by some action performed by an event >>> handler erroneously invoked by the non-UI thread in this case? >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Henrik Dahl >>> >>> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> skrev >>> i en meddelelse news:eCPhAiSeHHA.596@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Henrik, >>>> >>>> That isn't the case. There is nothing in ObservableCollection which >>>> is tied to the UI. The error is expected, as you are trying to update >>>> the UI thread from a non UI thread (something not allowed in WPF as >>>> well as Win32). >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>>> >>>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>>> news:uzYP3NSeHHA.1220@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... >>>>> Hello Nicholas, >>>>> >>>>> Yes, but if you invoke some methods from a non-UI thread an exception >>>>> is actually raised from the ObservableCollection(Of T) instance. This >>>>> could indicate there's something more into this ObservableCollection >>>>> because what you've described probably should not lead to such >>>>> treading related behaviour. What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Henrik Dahl >>>>> >>>>> "Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP]" <mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com> >>>>> skrev i en meddelelse news:e7$oGhReHHA.588@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>> Henrik, >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't see why it shouldn't be used at all tiers. >>>>>> ObservableCollection doesn't have any UI specific functionality. It >>>>>> is basically a Collection<T> instance which implements >>>>>> INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged. These >>>>>> interfaces, while they can be used for UI, don't HAVE to be strictly >>>>>> for UI. You might want some code to run when certain properties are >>>>>> changed (in a chain reaction sort of way). The most prominent >>>>>> example is UI changes, but not by any means the only example. >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> - Nicholas Paldino [.NET/C# MVP] >>>>>> - mvp@spam.guard.caspershouse.com >>>>>> >>>>>> "Henrik Dahl" <HenrikDahl@community.nospam> wrote in message >>>>>> news:uEdZ49NeHHA.4868@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>>>>> Hello! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In some situations I have a collection of objects which it in >>>>>>> different situations could be relevant to deal with at the UI-tier >>>>>>> and sometimes at other tiers. Typically my concept is a composite so >>>>>>> MyCollectionElementClass has a collection of >>>>>>> MyCollectionElementClass. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should I make one implementation for the UI-tier using >>>>>>> ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) and one for the >>>>>>> non-UI tier using List(MyCollectionElementClass) or should I use the >>>>>>> implementation using ObservableCollection(MyCollectionElementClass) >>>>>>> for all tiers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A more general question: Should ObservableCollection(Of T) basically >>>>>>> only be used at UI-tiers due to some performance or infrastructural >>>>>>> reasons for instance? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Henrik Dahl >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Hi Henrik,
I agree that ObservableCollection(Of T) can be used for all tiers. > the exception is not thrown by ObservableCollection(Of T) but by some action performed by an event handler erroneously invoked by the non-UI thread in this case? In my opinion, because the ObservableCollection(Of T) implements the INotifyCollectionChanged and INotifyPropertyChanged interfaces, it will cause UI update when the ObservableCollection(Of T) is changed. Let's say a non-UI thread accesses and changes the ObservableCollection(Of T), then it is the non-UI thread that performs the UI update in the next step, which is not allowed in the thread models of both WinForms and WPF applications. In WinForms world, the solution is to define a delegate for the method to access the control, and then call the Invoke or BeginInvoke method of the WinForms control to invoke the delegate. In WPF world, the solution is similar but is a little different. We still need to define a delegate for the method to access the UI element, and then call the Invoke or BeginInvoke method of the Dispather linked to the UI thread. The following is a sample. delegate void SetTextBoxDelegate(); Dispatcher.Invoke(System.Windows.Threading.DispatcherPriority.Normal, new SetTextBoxDelegate(SetTextBox1)); void SetTextBox1() { this.textBox1.Text = "some text"; } For more information on the threading model in WPF, you may visit the following link: 'Threading Model' http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms741870.aspx Hope this helps. If you have any question, please feel free to let me know. Sincerely, Linda Liu Microsoft Online Community Support ================================================== Get notification to my posts through email? Please refer to http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/managednewsgroups/default.aspx#notif ications. Note: The MSDN Managed Newsgroup support offering is for non-urgent issues where an initial response from the community or a Microsoft Support Engineer within 1 business day is acceptable. Please note that each follow up response may take approximately 2 business days as the support professional working with you may need further investigation to reach the most efficient resolution. The offering is not appropriate for situations that require urgent, real-time or phone-based interactions or complex project analysis and dump analysis issues. Issues of this nature are best handled working with a dedicated Microsoft Support Engineer by contacting Microsoft Customer Support Services (CSS) at http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/support/default.aspx. ================================================== This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.  
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